What Role Will Sheriffs Play in Trump's Mass Deportation Plans? A Q&A with Jessica Pishko
The journalist and author talks about how sheriffs might assist mass deportations, while others resist as they did during the first Trump administration.
As the country prepares for a new Trump administration in January, The Border Chronicle is reaching out to border organizers and experts about what they see on the horizon regarding Donald Trump’s plans for mass deportations. The first Trump administration was chaotic for U.S.-Mexico border communities—it adopted the cruel family separation policy, it destroyed wildlife and fragile ecosystems to construct a border wall, and it deployed active-duty military into border communities before the 2018 midterm, amid Trump’s fearmongering about migrant caravans. More migrant camps appeared in Mexico, where people were trapped between organized crime and a shutdown of asylum in the United States. This took place under the Remain in Mexico policy, which Trump said he will revive.
This time around in interviews and on Monday, Trump again confirmed that he’ll undertake a military-led mass deportation operation and declare a national emergency. He’s also said he’d use local police and the National Guard. It’s still unclear, exactly, what will unfold, but Trump has tapped former acting ICE director Tom Homan as “border czar” to lead the operation. In this capacity, Homan will not need congressional confirmation. Border Chronicle readers will be familiar with Homan from the recent investigation we published about his influence and propaganda operation, Border 911.
Trump has also named Stephen Miller as deputy chief of staff for policy and adviser on Homeland Security, which also doesn’t require congressional approval. Miller pushed for family separation, the Muslim ban, and other xenophobic policies during the first administration, and he has called for a military-led mass deportation plan this time around.
The Border Chronicle spoke with Jessica Pishko, journalist and author of The Highest Law in the Land: How the Unchecked Power of Sheriffs Threatens Democracy. You can also check out Pishko’s work at her Substack, Posse Comitatus, and listen to our podcast with her. Pishko has researched and written about sheriffs and their involvement in extremist and anti-immigrant movements for many years. In this Q&A, Pishko talks about what she sees coming on the horizon in January, and the ways that sheriffs and local law enforcement might interact—or resist—Trump’s deportation plans.
You’ve researched and written about sheriffs for a long time. What kind of role do you think they might play in Trump’s mass deportation plans?
So the current landscape is one where we have a few states that in the past couple of years have passed measures that require local law enforcement, including sheriffs, to cooperate with Immigration and Customs Enforcement. For example, Florida and Texas already implemented state laws that mandate that sheriffs basically contract and cooperate with ICE. But there’s also a handful of states where local law enforcement is not allowed to cooperate with ICE too. California is one of those states. The general gist is they’re not supposed to have a 287 (g) agreement [a federal program that gives law enforcement more leeway in deporting people]. But it’s not foolproof. Sheriffs have done different things to get around it, and it’s possible the Trump administration could challenge these laws in court again. It’s really going to depend in many cases, county by county.
When you look back at the first Trump administration, there were many local law enforcement entities that resisted. A lot of local sheriffs were elected or stayed in office by saying that they would not cooperate with ICE, and they would not participate in the deportation of immigrants. I think this time we will also see some sheriffs who say they’re not going to participate. And those are the places where I think the Trump administration will send ICE agents or federal agents.
My thought on the mass deportations is that I think a lot of people are, in my view, wrongly looking for something like a military coup, which would look like deputizing the military to go house to house and sweep up immigrants or people who might be immigrants. But I think that it’s going to look a lot more like policing, like policing people are used to, which is why I’m concerned. Because I worry that when it’s not immediately obvious to everybody, that they will say, “Oh, well, whatever. He can’t really do it.” And there’s been a lot of press about, it’s too expensive to do mass deportations. There’s no place to hold people, etc. And I’m like, look, you have states already doing it, and the costs have evidently not been a barrier. Not saying it doesn’t cost money, but it really hasn’t been a barrier.
And by states doing mass deportations, you mean Texas and Operation Lone Star?
Operation Lone Star [a Texas taxpayer-funded detention and deportation system] is incredibly expensive and illegal. It really is a waste of money, which has been pointed out again and again, but that has not stopped Texas from doing it. The cost to sheriffs is not going to be that high. Because they share deputies and borrow local law enforcement from other jurisdictions to help them do the day-to-day policing, and they get state money to do some of that.
During the Biden administration, more federal money was given to local law enforcement to do immigration enforcement. Grants like Operation Stone Garden to buy equipment and pay for overtime more than doubled from what they were under Trump. Trump was very stingy with money. He did not spend big bucks on law enforcement.
You’ve also pointed out that there’s been a lot of focus on private prisons, but a lot of county jails also house immigrants.
Counties will reinstate their agreements with the federal government. And they will be reimbursed by the federal government for that. Currently, the federal government has higher standards for immigrant detention than the states, because you have to meet government standards of care. Many of these county jails are considered too awful to be housing immigrants. But in the first Trump administration he got rid of those standards of care, and that’s what enabled sheriffs like Joe Arpaio [of Maricopa County, Arizona] to detain people in tents. It just blows my mind that Jerry Sheridan [a former lieutenant under Arpaio] was just elected sheriff in Phoenix. And he’s already talking about setting up tents again like Arpaio did.
I imagine Trump will also remove federal prohibitions against racially profiling people as well.
Currently, under the 287 (g) agreement, sheriffs have to follow federal rules that they can’t discriminate or racially profile, otherwise the Department of Justice can go after you. There was a sheriff [Terry Johnson] in North Carolina who had a 287(g) agreement and was arresting every Latino in the county. He finally stopped because the Department of Justice said he was racially profiling people. If the Department of Justice hadn’t told him to stop, he would have kept doing it. I think in five years, one study found that he drove out at least 10 percent of the Latino population in the rural county. And he said very ugly racist stuff. The racial animus was not subtle. I assume that under Trump, the DOJ is not going to prosecute law enforcement for racially profiling people. During his first administration he didn’t give law enforcement much in the way of money or resources. He just gave them permission to do whatever they wanted. So you’re just going to see these extreme excesses.
It was in the Obama era that the 287 (g) agreements began, as well as the Secure Communities data-sharing program, which uses biometric data to mark people for potential deportation. That’s when I first remember hearing the term “sanctuary cities.” Is a sanctuary city a city opposed to its law enforcement entering into a 287 (g) agreement?
So a sanctuary city is technically broader than just the 287 (g) agreement you enter into with the federal government to do some amount of immigration enforcement. Local law enforcement can still arrest someone and run that person through the database, and if they find that they are deportable, they could either call ICE, or sometimes ICE will issue a detainer and say, “Could you hold this person?” Some jails have an ICE agent who just reviews intake and then pulls out people they think are deportable.
In a sanctuary city, they’re not supposed to do any of those. Local law enforcement is not supposed to consider who might be deportable. One reason is that there are mistakes in the system. You could have DACA status, for instance [deferred deportation action for childhood arrivals]. One common scenario goes like this: a group of teenagers are hanging out on a corner. The police arrest them all. It turns out they weren’t really doing anything serious and were not charged with a crime. But if they’re immigration paperwork isn’t in order, they’re going to be flagged as deportable, even if they didn’t commit a crime.
I remember during the second Obama term, there was a big backlash against Secure Communities and 287 (g) agreements. Why was that?
Much of the backlash was because of Arpaio. He used the 287 (g) agreement to justify staging his own raids. He would just park his police car, for instance, outside of a library and arrest people coming out who were janitors. He just arrested every brown person he could find under the theory that they might be deportable. So when that happened, the Obama administration changed the 287 (g) agreement to prohibit that. Now they also altered the 287 (g) agreement so that it takes place only in jail and applied to people arrested for crimes. So you can’t just drive around and grab people to deport. You have to arrest them for a crime. But now you have these state laws where they can arrest you for violating immigration laws.
So what are you looking out for? What do you expect will happen when Trump takes office?
I expect he will write a blank check to local law enforcement who want to be more aggressive in policing people who are immigrants or people who look like immigrants. I anticipate a massively more coordinated effort to be harsher on policing. A lot more sheriffs will join 287 (g), a lot more jails will start holding immigrants. I think some of these jails will be places you don’t expect. Like New York State has several depopulated jails, and I think sheriffs will start housing immigrant detainees there for the financial benefit.
Excellent report.. ! Unfortunately...Trumps threats ..or promises ..have cast a shadow of fear across our nation.😨
I’ve been looking for you and Todd over on Bluesky. I hope that you will post links to your Substack from there and join into the community. I’m sure that keeping up with social media is a pain. Heidi Beirich whom you interviewed and her organization are on there. Thanks for listening❣️